i appreciate both views, but i wonder what you mean when you say spiritual oneness implies a relationship between actors (no pun intended) who are spaced far apart... like around the world apart...

how then would the actions of one have an impact on the other and vice versa? im puzzled. ok im cold over here in spain right now so what does that mean for you personally? sorry to sound cheaky but...

i have heard an ecologist speak about species death..and about ecological interconnectedness but without going into the spiritual oneness ideal because she said look if some species die, let's say, due to large scale tree felling in the amazon...the bulk of the forest will remain resilient.. thus, some species, a limited number that would have to be worked out (that is assumed can be worked out), can die with little impact on the integrity if the whole eco-system of the amazon...

but maybe that's the political oneness you talked of...in the guise of a scientist. but then, it gets difficult to know what the spiritual oneness is... if it isnt seriously calibrated to move in response to your movements, i mean if we are relatively autonomous and happy being separate, does 'oneness' really only then amount to what we have in common as you suggest?...where our interests overlap? and would that be spiritual or political or both.

i guess: im just trying to fathom the implications of that saying: 'i am you, you are me' when i told my flatmate about one-ness (the spiritual belief) he said 'well, what do ya mean? surely you dont mean we're going to try to fit into the same trouser leg at once...!'

i had to concede his point.. you can keep 'your' trousers i said...

Cliff I'm coming to Wellington NZ, to screen Spiritual Warriors at the film festival there. Love to see you.
jsu@msia.org

tena koe cliff bro i have watched you grow and you are always in my thoughts and also bro ka pai you are to one of our biggest ambassders not just for maori but a person, and kai kaha to you and your whanua go hard my brother and one day i hope to sit and korero with again and maybe we can catch up aroha

Ok, the oneness thing....

I personally have a different view, for the plain and simple reason that I was not indoctrinated or colonized as a child. I grew up without religion being a factor in the home and, while some of my contemporaries likely would have an issue with this, I feel that this was the best way for my parents to allow me to use my own damned brain and come up with a few answers without being spoon-fed.

No offense to those who subscribe to any particular religion, I rather envy the whole devout thing because it requires a lot of unquestioning faith. I myself have questioning faith, and so am not the popular gal when it comes to religious discussions. Mostly because I usually ask... "what?? are you saying......???" I try to avoid "Why??" it just pisses people off.

Personally, I get the Oneness thing; it's what I feel pretty much every day, no scriptures or choirs required; I take a look at the world around me and there is beauty everywhere I look and I realize, no matter how hard I am on my personal appearance, that beauty is everywhere and that I am a part of it. Whatever others call God, Yahweh, Christ, Buddha, Vishnu.... it's all the same thing because we all come from that same thing, and we will all return to it. THAT is the Oneness.

There is no hegemony, there is no "My God is better than yours" kind of crap. It's all the same thing with a different name. It's your connectedness that is key. To be connected is to not ignore the groans of the earth and the pollution in your wells. Simple. What sustains you is what you worship, and vice versa, but in physical form that has an impact on your health and well being.

For me, I grew up in the sticks; 20 miles from the nearest town, in the bush, really. I know what FRESH water smells and tastes like, I know what it is to live next to nothing and no-one but trees, bears and wolves, and it was great! I wish that everyone could experience what I did. It opens your eyes to the excesses of our daily lives, for one thing, and how much work our modern conveniences save us for another; the thing is that the work, in the long-term.... much better for the earth! And better for a person, to have accomplished what needs to be done to tuck their family in for a winter without worrying about the cold, lack of food, etc. and relying on the utilities companies.

Our lives day to day in the modern world don't allow for any connection with nature; snowstorms, rain squalls.... just an impediment to traffic, not a major event in our year. yet it can be for a farmer or anyone living off the land.

We need perspective, but we've lost the skills that enabled us to go without 24 hr anywhere anytime cell service and any app we want.

We've consumed ourselves and not even realized it- until the digestion system kicked in.... too bad we didn't account for gas.