Topic
started: 02/02/2009
Many feel the only solution to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is to split the region and establish two separate states. However, Rabbi Froman believes the solution lies in creating two states sharing the same land, in a dynamic co-existence. What are the chances of his idea actually working?
rock's picture

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istlota's picture

God is not only awake. God is us. But, we do not know this. Instead, we think we are Jews and Christians and Muslims. And, clinging to our misperceptions of who we are --- diverse individuals, instead of aspects of the One Divine Being --- while we all want peace --- the devil is in the details.

Rabbi Froman's details of that peace, as he stated, is that Muslims must learn that the West is not all dark. And, the West must learn to respect Islam. No mention of anything Israel should do differently.

He spoke of his perception of how to achieve that peace. He often spoke of Arab terrorism, while only, at best, hinting at the possibility of American terrorism. No mention of Israeli terrorism. He is not a bad man. He is just a typical participant in the madness of the Middle East --- possessing certain blind spots regarding the misbehavior of the "diverse individuals" that he identifies with.

That sort of thing is unavoidable as long as men insist on seeing themselves as diverse individuals who, at best, must somehow learn to co-exist rather than live together as One.

The American State Department, Palestinians, and Israelis are already all on the public record as desiring two co-existing states. So, why do we then not have that? Because the devil is in the details. Palestinians and Israelis and Americans all have vastly different concepts of what the details of the two co-existing states should be. These differing concepts are the unavoidable consequence of men, in error, clinging to the idea that we are diverse individuals -- not One.

Why do we not even consider working towards One Israel? Because we do not know who we are. Our error of identifying with what we are not -- diverse individuals --- is the source of all our pain and suffering.

Rabbi Froman said that the problem is a religous one. I agree, if we expound on that and talk about the other corollaries:

1) Religions, all religions, are of man, not God, and, hence, inherently flawed. There is no one true religion. Christianity, Islam, Judaism --- they are all deeply flawed and, in practice, invariably skewed toward dividing mankind into chosen Jacobs and hated Esaus.

2) Governments manipulate the flaws of religion to convince the masses that, while peace is preferable, war between the chosen Jacobs and hated Esaus is unavoidable at this time. The Zionists used religion to convince persecuted European Jews that it was God's will for them to displace Palestinians from the homeland of God's Chosen People. Islamic clerics use religion to convince Arab children to kill not only Jews, but themselves as well, in Holy War. And, America's shameless politicians manipulate the Christian myth of God wanting to establish an end time, _physical_, state of Israel to get elected every two to four years:

http://blog.beliefnet.com/godometer/2008/07/why-obamas-faithbased-initat...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/832668.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvuzMWcz0kU

desabo's picture

I wish the whole world could read your thesis. You speak the truth!! I have always maintained that all religious faiths, as good as they are, are instruments of division. Think of all the wars...From the days of the Crusaders to to-day. The unnecessary divisions of humanity and cultures. God has a purpose. Or does God have a purpose?

Whilst I believe fervently that two separate states is the ONLY solution to peace in the Middle East, the fundamental mistrust amongst the people from time immemorial has made it simply impossible for Israel and Palestine to coexist. But coexist they MUST!!

President Carter(I know many Jewish folks don't trust him) in his new book said that unless Palestine is recognised, there will never be peace. Sooner or later, there will be more Palestinians than Jews. Just figure out what will happen then.

Where is the promise Land?

istlota's picture

It can not work. It is unrealistic to think that two states -- one pitifully weak militarily and one enormously powerful militarily --- can live together in anything remotely resembling "dynamic co-existence". The more powerful co-state, Israel, will use its superior wealth and might to enforce its view of what is fair and equitable -- just as Israel is doing now.

Much can be learned from the example South Africa provides. South Africa tried the two co-states approach during Apartheid with their Bautustan plan. Didn't work.

South Africa works, now, because it is not two states, nor is it an Afrikaner state, nor is it a Black state. It is one state whose citizens -- both black and Afrikaner --- have equal rights and priviledges.

That can not work, now, in the Middle East because the Zionists are dealing from a position of strength. First, American money and arms must be removed from the equation. Then, the Zionists will end up in the position the Afrikaneers found themselves in when the rest of the world ceased, or at least seriously reduced, funding of the tyranny of the oppressors.

The fact that the international divesture approach, which worked so well to end apartheid, is not even being considered against Israel is a enlightening indicator toward our world's true intentions for the Middle East -- which is not peace, but rather to let Israel keep what they stole.

South Africa, by contrast, came up with a reasonable compromise. The Arikaneers got to keep most of what they stole. But, to balance that, the blacks got significant influence in the political sphere. All of this, mind you, was acheived not by exchanging missiles at each other, or by bulldozing the homes of old women, or by blowing up crowded restaurants, but by both sides agreeing to live together in a revolutional form of government --- democracy.

Oh, one more thing -- another extremely important lesson to be learned from South Africa. At the same time that South Africa got rid of Apartheid, they also got rid of their nuclear weapons.

desabo's picture

Yes, there can be dynamic co-existence. This is the law of God. But there has to be....infact there should be by all means two countries enjoying this co-existence. It can NEVER be one country with two groups of a people, with a very different religious/everyday beliefs enjoying this co-existence in this country.

There has to be two countries.Two countries that will respect each others boundries.

This is so very simple. Then why is it so difficult to attain? This co-existence has been tried since 1948. 2009, and the blood of the PEOPLE is all over the lands. We no longer want to know who is powerful or has the bigger weapons.We want PEACE!! Why has God forgotten these people?

THERE HAS TO BE TWO COUNTRIES. TWO COUNTRIES THAT WILL RESPECT EACH OTHERS BOUNDRIES!!

God is awake.